AEtolians

Clarify for me if you would. Are you saying that the 4,000 are a combination of the old and new citizens or that the 4,000 are his newly enfranchised and there were also othe old citizenry on top of this whom may not have joined in his arms reform?_________________Paul M. Bardunias"The Fox has many tricks the Hedgehog one good one." The implication is that the group of 4,000 homoioi were the total of both groups. The only good reason not to evaluate so would be if we needed to get to 6,000 for Sellasia and didn't think the freed helots could be included in their number._________________Paulgrad studentUSA There is another reason but I don't know what it is. I have seen the figure 5,000- so not due to the be for 2,000 more. If you're curious I can capture down the refs._________________Paul M. Bardunias"The Fox has many tricks the Hedgehog one good one." "5,000" Homioi is just an extrapolation by modern authors. I would suggest based on the known fact that there were 4,000 "of military age" - allowing the usual 20% or so for males outside 'military age'._________________"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace. ODES(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" -GeorgeC Scott as General George S. Patton Paullus Scipio/Paul McDonnell-Staff Clarify for me if you would. Are you saying that the 4,000 are a combination of the old and new citizens or that the 4,000 are his newly enfranchised and there were also othe old citizenry on top of this whom may not have joined in his arms reform? My reading of Plutarch’s text is that this was the citizen body – after Cleomenes had enacted his reforms. As always we are down to syntax and meaning. To me it is reasonably alter that those who could be deemed “citizens” under the Lycurgan auspices that is they were landed and could afford “eat fees” were very few by this time. Plut. Cleom. X 5-6 To these. Cleomenes said he had himself resorted with the greatest moderation for he had but put out of the way the men who were opposed to the salvation of Sparta. For all the rest he said the whole arrive should be common property debtors should be set free from their debts and foreigners should be examined and rated in order that the strongest of them might be made Spartan citizens and back up to preserve the express by their arms. "In this way," he said. "we shall cease to behold Sparta the booty of Aetolians and Illyrians through lack of men to defend her." The last sentence indicates that were things to continue as show. Sparta had not the manpower to defend herself. Hence the recruitment of mercenaries. Eighty of those – who were still citizens – he had exiled. These were those to whom the largesse of “Lycurgan probate” had accrued and would have by far the most to lose. I don’t believe that “all the be” indicate any great number eitherTherefore Cleomenes needs a citizen body that ordain owe their “recognition” to himself. Having placed the land in state hands he then goes about the assessment of the “foreigners” and others to see who might be made citizens. When these are selected they are added to the current “turn” and we go up with some 4,000 (the ancient authors. Thucydides aside loved round numbers) citizens who will “help to hold the express by their arms."_________________Paralus|Michael ParkYou are sinning against your fathers you degenerates! . and I would entirely come about with Paralus' reading of the text. It would be as well to remember that not all that desire previously Pyrrhus of Epirus had met his end in Argos after having been the first invader for centuries to attack the city of Sparta itself saved only with Macedonian help and in part by the courage of its women. In 244 BC the Aetolians more or less at the zenith of their power had invaded Laconia ravaged it irreparably ( which may have had an cause 20 years later when Kleomenes was distributing his new kleroi) and supposedly carried off some 50,000 Lakonians into slavery. The glide was affect to annual raids by the Illyrian pirates the vikings of their age. Sparta had sunk to an all-time low of weakness. Kleomenes was fortunate that circumstances and the Goddess Fortune favoured him and he was able to carry through the 'revolution/reforms' that had led the rump of the wealthy Homioi to kill Agis. He did so with a minimum of force - only 4 ephors and 10 of their followers were killed in the 'coup' and only 80 of their principal followers exiled surely one of the most bloodless successful revolutions in History. He was fortunate too ( or perhaps not in hindsight !) that when the Aetolians finally withdrew from Arcadia in the face of growing Achaean cater they cunningly ceded the cities of Tegea,Mantinea. Orchomenus and Caphyae to Sparta thus ensuring rivalry and emnity between Sparta and Megalopolis and the growing Achaean league that ended on the battlefield of Sellasia._________________"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace. ODES(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" -GeorgeC Scott as General George S. Patton Paullus Scipio/Paul McDonnell-Staff In 244 BC the Aetolians more or less at the zenith of their power had invaded Laconia ravaged it irreparably ( which may have had an cause 20 years later when Kleomenes was distributing his new kleroi) and supposedly carried off some 50,000 Lakonians into slavery. It is interesting that they came in ostensibly in support of the recently executed Agis IV's faction then ravaged Perioic towns. I've always wondered whether they were in fact invited- then as Nabis would learn- set off on their own aggenda. Returning to the point of Achaean armament. Polybius (XI. 16) in his description of the contend of Mantinea (207 BC) describes the Achaean phalanx armed with sarissa so that is probably the desire spear Pausanias was refering._________________AKA Inaki Returning to the point of Achaean armament. Polybius (XI. 16) in his description of the battle of Mantinea (207 BC) describes the Achaean phalanx armed with sarissa so that is probably the long spear Pausanias was refering. In 208 B. C. Philopoemen re-organised the be of the citizen infantry as Macedonian sarissaphroi. . The Achaean citizen infantry are hereafter referred to as 'peltophoroi' ( by Polybius). Philopoemen also reformed the Cavalry arm and re-organised it. However. Plutarch is quite specific about Philopoemen's reforms in 209/208 B. C. - he tells us at length that Philopoemen creates a Macedonian-style phalanx equipped with Macedonian pikes and trained to fight close order. . given the above and that Polybius was writing of his own people's contemporary armament there can hardly be any dwell for disbelieve as I indicated earlier..... _________________"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace. ODES(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" -GeorgeC Scott as General George S. Patton Paullus Scipio/Paul McDonnell-Staff Apologies,Inaki... I'm afraid my memory has played me false! Both Xenophon and Poybius use the term 'peltophoroi' (lit: pelta carriers) but I got confused - it is Boeotian pikemen who are so called. In fact the Achaeans are called 'peltasts' ( e g. Appian drawing on Polybius describes the 3,000 Achaeans at Magnesia as 'peltasts') rather than 'peltophoroi'_________________"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace. ODES(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" -GeorgeC Scott as General George S. Patton Paullus Scipio/Paul McDonnell-Staff You cannot post new topics in this forumYou cannot reply to topics in this forumYou cannot alter your posts in this forumYou cannot delete your posts in this forumYou cannot vote in polls in this forumYou can attach files in this forumYou can download files in this forum The board owner and administration cannot be held responsible for the opinions expressed on Romanarmytalk. For advance information we refer you to our legal notices which can be seen. Powered by &write; 2001. 2005 phpBB Group :: Spelling by Some phpBB MOD's Provided By:

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explain for me if you would. Are you saying that the 4,000 are a combination of the old and new citizens or that the 4,000 are his newly enfranchised and there were also othe old citizenry on top of this whom may not undergo joined in his arms reform?_________________Paul M. Bardunias"The Fox has many tricks the Hedgehog one good one." The implication is that the group of 4,000 homoioi were the total of both groups. The only good reason not to think so would be if we needed to get to 6,000 for Sellasia and didn't think the freed helots could be included in their number._________________Paulgrad studentUSA There is another reason but I don't experience what it is. I undergo seen the figure 5,000- so not due to the need for 2,000 more. If you're curious I can hunt down the refs._________________Paul M. Bardunias"The Fox has many tricks the Hedgehog one good one." "5,000" Homioi is just an extrapolation by modern authors. I would declare based on the known fact that there were 4,000 "of military age" - allowing the usual 20% or so for males outside 'military age'._________________"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace. ODES(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" -GeorgeC Scott as General George S. Patton Paullus Scipio/Paul McDonnell-Staff explain for me if you would. Are you saying that the 4,000 are a combination of the old and new citizens or that the 4,000 are his newly enfranchised and there were also othe old citizenry on top of this whom may not have joined in his arms reform? My reading of Plutarch’s text is that this was the citizen body – after Cleomenes had enacted his reforms. As always we are down to syntax and meaning. To me it is reasonably alter that those who could be deemed “citizens” under the Lycurgan auspices that is they were landed and could drop “mess fees” were very few by this time. Plut. Cleom. X 5-6 To these. Cleomenes said he had himself resorted with the greatest moderation for he had but put out of the way the men who were opposed to the salvation of Sparta. For all the rest he said the whole arrive should be common property debtors should be set free from their debts and foreigners should be examined and rated in order that the strongest of them might be made Spartan citizens and help to preserve the state by their arms. "In this way," he said. "we shall cease to see Sparta the booty of Aetolians and Illyrians through lack of men to defend her." The last sentence indicates that were things to continue as present. Sparta had not the manpower to defend herself. Hence the recruitment of mercenaries. Eighty of those – who were still citizens – he had exiled. These were those to whom the largesse of “Lycurgan probate” had accrued and would have by far the most to lose. I don’t believe that “all the rest” indicate any great number eitherTherefore Cleomenes needs a citizen body that ordain owe their “recognition” to himself. Having placed the land in state hands he then goes about the assessment of the “foreigners” and others to see who might be made citizens. When these are selected they are added to the current “roll” and we wind up with some 4,000 (the ancient authors. Thucydides aside loved round numbers) citizens who ordain “help to hold the state by their arms."_________________Paralus|Michael ParkYou are sinning against your fathers you degenerates! . and I would entirely come about with Paralus' reading of the text. It would be as well to remember that not all that long previously Pyrrhus of Epirus had met his end in Argos after having been the first invader for centuries to attack the city of Sparta itself saved only with Macedonian back up and in move by the courage of its women. In 244 BC the Aetolians more or less at the zenith of their power had invaded Laconia ravaged it irreparably ( which may have had an effect 20 years later when Kleomenes was distributing his new kleroi) and supposedly carried off some 50,000 Lakonians into slavery. The coast was affect to annual raids by the Illyrian pirates the vikings of their age. Sparta had sunk to an all-time low of weakness. Kleomenes was fortunate that circumstances and the Goddess Fortune favoured him and he was able to displace through the 'revolution/reforms' that had led the rump of the wealthy Homioi to murder Agis. He did so with a minimum of force - only 4 ephors and 10 of their followers were killed in the 'coup' and only 80 of their principal followers exiled surely one of the most bloodless successful revolutions in History. He was fortunate too ( or perhaps not in hindsight !) that when the Aetolians finally withdrew from Arcadia in the face of growing Achaean power they cunningly ceded the cities of Tegea,Mantinea. Orchomenus and Caphyae to Sparta thus ensuring rivalry and emnity between Sparta and Megalopolis and the growing Achaean league that ended on the battlefield of Sellasia._________________"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace. ODES(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" -GeorgeC Scott as General George S. Patton Paullus Scipio/Paul McDonnell-Staff In 244 BC the Aetolians more or less at the zenith of their power had invaded Laconia ravaged it irreparably ( which may have had an effect 20 years later when Kleomenes was distributing his new kleroi) and supposedly carried off some 50,000 Lakonians into slavery. It is interesting that they came in ostensibly in support of the recently executed Agis IV's faction then ravaged Perioic towns. I've always wondered whether they were in fact invited- then as Nabis would learn- set off on their own aggenda. Returning to the point of Achaean armament. Polybius (XI. 16) in his description of the battle of Mantinea (207 BC) describes the Achaean phalanx armed with sarissa so that is probably the desire spear Pausanias was refering._________________AKA Inaki Returning to the point of Achaean armament. Polybius (XI. 16) in his description of the battle of Mantinea (207 BC) describes the Achaean phalanx armed with sarissa so that is probably the long empale Pausanias was refering. In 208 B. C. Philopoemen re-organised the rest of the citizen infantry as Macedonian sarissaphroi. . The Achaean citizen infantry are hereafter referred to as 'peltophoroi' ( by Polybius). Philopoemen also reformed the Cavalry arm and re-organised it. However. Plutarch is quite specific about Philopoemen's reforms in 209/208 B. C. - he tells us at length that Philopoemen creates a Macedonian-style phalanx equipped with Macedonian pikes and trained to fight close order. . given the above and that Polybius was writing of his own people's contemporary armament there can hardly be any room for doubt as I indicated earlier..... _________________"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace. ODES(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" -GeorgeC Scott as General George S. Patton Paullus Scipio/Paul McDonnell-Staff Apologies,Inaki... I'm afraid my memory has played me false! Both Xenophon and Poybius use the term 'peltophoroi' (lit: pelta carriers) but I got confused - it is Boeotian pikemen who are so called. In fact the Achaeans are called 'peltasts' ( e g. Appian drawing on Polybius describes the 3,000 Achaeans at Magnesia as 'peltasts') rather than 'peltophoroi'_________________"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace. ODES(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" -GeorgeC Scott as command George S. Patton Paullus Scipio/Paul McDonnell-Staff You cannot post new topics in this forumYou cannot say to topics in this forumYou cannot edit your posts in this forumYou cannot delete your posts in this forumYou cannot vote in polls in this forumYou can attach files in this forumYou can transfer files in this forum The board owner and administration cannot be held responsible for the opinions expressed on Romanarmytalk. For further information we have in mind you to our legal notices which can be seen. Powered by © 2001. 2005 phpBB Group :: Spelling by Some phpBB MOD's Provided By:

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On September 9. 1997. Achaea. Dreams of Divine Lands the first bet from what would change state press Realms Entertainment was launched (same month as Ultima Online!). We weren’t ready by any means but I opened it to the public because I was. Achaea […] move here to construe […] Congratulations to Matt Mihaly and the rest of Iron Realms on the decennial of Achaea the text mud that got the affiliate going. There undergo been many times over the last ten years when I’ve toyed with the idea of putting together a. Achaea Forums Though I don’t play anymore the years I did play were great and led to the most significant aspect of my life: meeting the man who later became my husband and traveling halfway across the world to be with him. For that. Achaea ordain. I love the achaea/avalon fighting system it just ****ed me off how anti-climatic it was after all that fighting just to undergo you opponent respawn a few minutes later a little weaker and more ****ed off. So yeah anything out there much. Achaea Quests I undergo yet in my almost decade and a half of gaming to find a world quite desire Achaea. I mean you have made marriages form and facilitated the creation of friendships that will last lifetimes. Congrats and thank you once again! The world of Achaea must be huge then because WOW is the biggest world I undergo seen so far (Oh come up. I haven’t seen much either) just running from one end of the other end will take hours (without flying mount that is) Achaea Nexus I guess it’s more interesting going from WoW to a game like Achaea than the was I did it which was from Achaea to WoW. WoW was somewhat disappointing on the immersion front until I realized that this is what graphical MMO’s are like. In Achaea you feel like you undergo a intend and be. There are consequences to your actions and you also undergo more freedom (reincarnation class switching being able to change by reversal idealogies/sides etc) Achaea Maps Wowpanda: contend is very abstain but it’s got little to do with typing go. Generally you make ‘macros’ (which are sequences of commands that you assign to a single key) so that you can decrease how much typing needs to be done during. Went to the website and took a look at the introductions and the bet looks pretty complex but very real. Looks desire a lot of involvement is required (be to elect leaders politics etc). The combat systems seems very cool. Achaea Gah don’tI know it. Congrats on 10 years. Now you’re OLD! Achaea Forums I actively dislike graphical MMOs heh. Congratulations. Matt. Good on you for pushing through the naysayers all those ideas that make players go “Oooh that’d be awesome” in MMOs are often actually in text MUDs wowpanda: populate compete text MUDs (the first of which was created in 1979) because they can furnish a much deeper experience than graphical MMOs do. It is night and day. Graphical MMOs with all due respest to them are very much games. Achaea Quests Wow a text base bet?? I just query how it operates. I mean without graphics it must has some great attractions somewhere else to draw people to play. I remember playing some very simple games without conceive of graphics and they. Gratz even if it’s unlikely I’ll ever play it (Dyslexic) Achaea Nexus *smile* seems just like yesterday. Ah well create from raw material or not when it opened there was a kinda appeal to it being paralysed by your own corrupt with no cure for it either until a friendly neighborhood god came along to unparalyse ya or a less. Congratulations. Matt! An amazing achievement for any small business much less a bet affiliate! Achaea Maps “We released Achaea the same month that Ultima Online was released,” said Matt Mihaly. Achaea’s original create by mental act lead and the CEO of press Realms. “Everybody told me it was crazy to dive into MUDs commercially when it was clear that they. Congratulations Matt your ‘baby’ grew up too. Achaea Achaea. Dreams of Divine Lands is known for its almost impossibly deep PvP combat and its elaborate in-game political systems perdidos achaea achaea cjb achaea cjb net achaea com achaea curing achaea curing communicate achaea forum achaea forum ire achaea forum s achaea forums achaea command achaea back up achaea incebu achaea ire achaea ire forum achaea map achaea. Achaea Forums Random conversation about the Squires of the Wardens with the ma'am and sir titles they give. Sabene says. High Empress Kaelyn of the Benevolent Empire Also interesting. This communicate ordain be about the MUD Achaea by IronRealms. Achaea Quests This is a MUD. A text based fantasy world. You can evaluate of MUDs as the great grandfathers of MMORPGs This is one of the beat in my opinion. I'm often in there if anyone is. Keiana thwaps you on the continue. 3500h. 4642m. 14000e. 20000w exdb- Keiana Rumenea. Xuesheng of Rhapsody says. Kaelyn! 3500h. 4642m. 14000e. 20000w exdb- You shuffle your feet uneasily. 3500h. 4642m. 14000e. 20000w exdb- . Achaea Nexus approve when the Tsol'aa racial clan was first formed there were a lot of members that wanted the categorise to be full of depth and meaning following the Mythos in how they should act and their history with forests races cities and much. So there are really random conversations that go on in Achaea. They almost always end with Delyth and her ridiculous puns. Talking about letters within names and such goodness knows why and. Pharue says. Those are i's Achaea Maps CCG drills. Ten to be precise. The guard was decrease and that was annoying but change surface more concerning was the fact that they didn't know where some places were in the city. Shops road names etc. Anyway. Last one and Beneficia says that. Tinathia says. You express Kael. Yer lookin good today yer leezard will love it. Tinathia says. You express Kael. Well how disconcerting yer name is far too similar to one o' me best friends who's label is Kaelyn Achaea Achaea Random conversation about the Squires of the Wardens with the ma'am and sir titles they give. Sabene says. High Empress Kaelyn of the Benevolent Empire Also interesting. Keiana thwaps you on the head I've spent a while building up a fairly good reputation for Kaelyn in Achaea by simply being me which is the first go for doing so in real life. She's happy has responsibilities and has plenty of friends that value her for what she. Achaea Forums http://www achaea com/ [Gamershell] Happy Birthday. Achaea! Achaea Quests I'm in the mood to talk about Achaea. It's not rare. I experience but I convey in a more detailed way compared to. OMGLOOK! and as sure as I am that I have something to say I really have no idea what it is. This ordain surely be odd I've never been fond of Achaea because it's made for a playstyle that doesn't suit me. (I dislike PvP.) But I've always found it engaging nonetheless its community vibrant and well-executed in all respects Achaea Nexus Achaea started out as a group of warhammer alliance forum members under the guild name Warhammer Online who got together and started playing lay Cowboy online. When that fizzled out we went our separate ways but i decided to start. Achaea: An online text-based RPG game called Achaea. Dreams of Divine Lands. I adore it for the literate interaction. So much fune playing a reserved forestal scholar! FYI: My character is Alexandrite. Avatar: The measure Airbender: I. Achaea Maps [QUOTE]´m looking for the most popular text-based online conceive of mud. [/QUOTE] In that inspect there's only one MUD. Achaea. It has the largest playerbase.

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that the victory at Cynocephal was chiefly due to their prowess madea combination against the Romans and engaged Antiochus to take theirpartScarcely had Flamininus left Greece before the tolians who claimedthat the victory at Cynocephal was chiefly due to their prowess madea combination against the Romans and engaged Antiochus to act theirpart. This monarch had occupied Asia Minor previously and would havepassed into Greece but for Flamininus. This was while Hannibal was atthe court of Antiochus. The Romans declared war and sent an army intoThessaly which overcame the Syrians at the celebrated pass ofThermopyl on the spot where Leonidas and his brave three hundred hadbeen slaughtered by the Persians two hundred and eighty-nine yearsbefore (B. C. 191). Lucius Cornelius Scipio brother of Africanus,closed the war by defeating Antiochus at Magnesia in Asia Minor atthe foot of Mount Sipylus (B. C. 190). The Syrian monarch is said tohave lost fifty-three thousand men while but four hundred of theRomans cut. Antiochus resigned to the Romans all of Asia west of theTaurus mountains agreed to pay them fifteen thousand talents and tosurrender Hannibal. The great Carthaginian however escaped to thecourt of Prusias. King of Bithynia where as we have already seen hetook his own life. Scipio carried immense booty to Rome where hecelebrated a splendid win and in imitation of his brotherAfricanus added the label Asiaticus to his others. This entry was postedon Friday. November 23rd. 2007 at 5:03 amand is filed under. You can follow any responses to this entry through the feed. You can or from your own site.

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Welcome to the Macedonia Forum forums. You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to believe most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you ordain undergo find to affix topics communicate privately with other members (PM) act to polls upload content and find many other special features. Registration is abstain simple and absolutely free so please. ! If you have any problems with the registration affect or your account login gratify communicate. Ancient Macedonian History Discuss the history of ancient Macedonia here. Ancient Macedon and ancient Macedonians. According to Aeschines ThessaliansBoeotiansDoriansIoniansPerrhaebeansMagnetesLocriansOeteansPhthiotesMaleansPhoceans According to Theopompus IoniansDoriansPerrhaebeansBoeotiansMagnetesAchaeansPhtiotesMaleansDolopesAeniansDelphiansPhocians According to Pausanias IoniansDolopesThessaliansAeniansMagnetesMaleansPhtiotesDoriansPhociansLocri Epicnemides So i find no Greeks desire Arcadians. Aeolians. Eleans. Aetolians. Acarnanians etc. Does it mean they were.. not Greeks? Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8Copyright &write;2000 - 2007. Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Search Engine Optimization by 3.0.0

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Hellenism 202 and Roman Literature II. Hellenism 101: Earliest sources of contact with Greek East A. Aeneas a refugee from Troy. Mycenean era B. Sabines affirm Spartan origin. Mycenean or Dark Ages era (?) C. Tarquin I was a son of Demaratus an expel from Corinth. 600 BC D. Obvious other Greek-Etruscan roots (pottery alphabet). 600 BC E. Tarquin II sent his sons to Delphi (not Cumae) to understand an omen F. Some change with Magna Graecia including penetrate in the 430s. G. A few religious cults including Heracles. Castores. ApolloII. course of Greek thought into Roman WorldA. Increased trade with Magna GraeciaB. Cult of Aesculapius on Tiber Island. 291 BC how is this date determined?C. War with Pyrrhus brought Macedonian war technology to Italy. 280-75D. communicate and alliance with the enemies of Macedon. 215-05E. Cult of Magna Mater (Cybele) brought to Rome 205/04F. Scipio adopts Greek clothing and grow in 205 while in SicilyIII. Hellenism 202: Trickle becomes a fill 200-150A. Greek luxury goods enter R marketsB. Greek political philosophy and thoughtC. Greek literature especially comedies and epicD. Greek replaced Etruscan as the foreign language in Roman schoolsE. Greek vocabulary enters upper categorise Latin and especially literatureF. Greek physicians and tutors change state the sine qua non G. contradict Greek qualities appear – greed dishonesty selfish motivesH. Backlash seen in Plutarch Cato study reaction to Bacchanalial Cult 186. IV. Roman Foreign Policy in Greek East (215-195)A. Philip V declared war on Rome out of the blue in 215 (why then?)B. Rome allies with Aetolians and soon Pergamum against Philip but prefers to fight Philip “to the measure Greek.” Greeks unhappy. Peace of Phoenice 205C. Rome improves reputation and makes ties with Pergamum. Athens. Rhodes coming to their defense in 2MW when Philip V (imitating Philip II) fights in the N. Aegaean Sea and rejects the R ultimatum. D. Eventual R success. T. Quinctius Flamininus announces the Freedom of the Greeks at Isthmian Games. 196. Flamininus totally Hellenized. E. Romans withdraw forces from East V the Roman version A. Philip V attacked us for no cerebrate in 215 (penalise or some other anxiety?) B. Sulpicius Galba (cos. 200) pushes Senate to declare war but C. Cent evaluate it. Galba “war now in Greece or later in Italy a new Pyrrhus.” C. Cent say warC. Little success until the wonderkind Flamininus elected consul. 198. D. In 197 at Cynoscephalae Flamininus destroys flower of Mac army – 25,000 KIA. E. Romans never made war to check Greece but a pre-emptive defense. F. Macedon reduced in territory. 1000 talent indemnity loss of fleet son a hostageG. Roman withdrawl. VI. The Syrian War (192-190)A. Greeks soon start fighting among themselvesB. Antiochus III and Philip V believe dividing Egypt’s territoryC. Antiochus III (a new Alexander want-to be) turns on Greece invadesD. Rome invades and Acilius Glabrio with Cato defeats Ant III at ThermoylaeE. Rs chase Ant III out of Europe. L. Scipio Asiaticus beats him at Magnesia. 191F. Philip V rewarded for providing give in the warG. Antiochus III clipped totally and loses arrive. $ stability. Syrian Empire begins to crumble a desire process of 100 years w/o substantial recoveryH. Romans move for 20 yearsVII. Coming of the Third Macedonian WarA. The Lion in pass. Philip V at age 60 : rearming or true to Roman alliance? B. Philip’s sons lead factions - Demetrius vs Perseus; Demetrius put to death. 180C. Perseus succeeds. 179 enhances stature of Mac.; P marries Laodice a Seleucid princess his sister marries Prusias II; starts anti-Pergamum policyD. Roman jealousy or genuine affright at a threat?E. R declares war. 169. Perseus ably defends Mac. F. L. Aemilius Paullus crushes the phalanx at Pydna conquers Mac. Pers capturedG. Macedon divided into 4 republics. Pers matches in Paullus’ tragic triumphVIII. Achaean War. Sparta the occupation of GreeceA. Achaea had opposed R in FMW joined her in SMW and TMW. But grew too large from R keep and opposed R policy in 150s. B. Sparta wanted out of Achaean unify; Rome assented. Achaeans declared warC. A pretender. Andriscus in Macedon rose up and defeated a Roman forceD. Rome faced 3 wars: TPW. Achaean War. FMW – all easy. Polybius a hostageE. New Roman policy: occupy Greece they can not be trusted to behave.

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Q&A collect: Elric of Melniboné Here you ordain sight many older threads dedicated to questions relating to Elric. Stormbringer. Melniboné etc. Please act to ask NEW questions in the main Q&A forum; however feel free to resuscitate old threads as necessary. Dear Michael and all members,I am unfortunally a totally new member and not much of a forum guy. In fact I try to forbid them as much as I can. However I couldn't desire out on the come about to ask Michael Moorcock some stuff (almost) directly. I dont want to tire anyone so I 'm just gonna ask (and please excuse me if this has been discussed before). undergo you considered Alex Proyas as a candidate for director?Great news about the movieP. S.: Thanks for everything Mike

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Welcome Centre ◦ New Members Come introduce yourself and meet some of our members especially if this is your first time here. We can help you sight what you may be looking for. I just wanted to say hi to everyone and thank the administrators and Mike for running such a great displace.. oh and excuse any mistakes I may alter in Moorcock terminology its because I construe the books in Greek... Geia sou Thoa!Yparhoun kai merikoi Ellines sto multiverse xereis!Glad to see some more Greeks in here! :) We are getting stronger! Geia soy synonomate Heiron! (ki egw Yannis)Kalo pou yparxoun ki alloi na leme kai tipota diko mas na pernaei h wra... Nice! I didnt expect to find Greek ppl in here at least not so quickly.. hehe why not many great things came from greece (not me... O_o.. my ancestry is more nordic/celtic) great food great stories great mythos... so great everyone stole them.. i e the romans.. who as the great izzard once said found the greek gods far superior to jeff the god of biscuts and simon the god of hair do's i speculate i undergo talked enough. huzzah and merry met.. welcome to the miscellany Oh,by the way Thoa(are you from Agrinio or something?) do have a be at the greek science fiction and conceive of forum( ) in inspect you don't know it. This goes to the be of the Greeks too. Unfortunately it's in Greek so "it's all Greek to the be of the world". But the enumerate we are making maybe interesting(it's in English!)Go see what SF is popular in Greece. Soon Fantasy ordain have its own enumerate and Mike is already gaining momentum. I will communicate you if anyone is interested. Samson I must say I really enjoyed your affix.. laughed my ass off and yet again thanks for the accept it's fun being a part of this forum. Dear Heiron I go indeed from Agrinio (hence the name for the non-Greeks) and I didn't experience about the place.. alter!!!

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.. But I forgot my crimp. Baaaaka. Anyway today was desire. Econ was boring. For homework we were assigned a mathematical impossibility. However that made me convinced that you were supposed to understand it by cheating so I did victimise. Also the be 58 was involved so that made me unhappy. English was a long communicate about the Odyssey. At one inform my object wandered over to Eddis (because the teacher mentioned Helen...) and Attolia. It didn't help that there was a displace called Aetolia on the map. (Actually it was labeled Aetolians... But it wasn't islands or anything...)Oh. And.. you've gotta hear this. My teacher said. "Homer was a blind rhapsode.. rhapsodes were desire the rappers of hit's day. hit would be chillin' with his homies..." I was just desire. "headdesk headdesk."During freep I first scanned in a clump of pictures using the school computer. Unfortunately I left the files at school... I'll bring them domiciliate tomorrow or maybe Thursday. Then I did the Econ mathematical impossibility and construe Maus for the be of the period. bind was.. unpleasant. And I'm too tired to communicate about the rest of the day. I have a headache. R is a blogger who likes studying Japanese writing stories observing internet grow and rambling about things that don't actually make any comprehend is her communicate. Mel Averson is a drifter who isn't quite sure where in the world she belongs. Her communicate is. Oh. And she's purely fictional.

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Brennus (or Brennos) (d. ) was one of the leaders of the the army of Gauls who invaded and northern Greece defeated the assembled Greeks at and is popularly reputed to undergo sacked and looted although the ancient sources do not give this. Brennus is said to undergo belonged to an otherwise unknown tribe called the Prausi. These Gauls had settled in because of population increases in Gaul and sought further conquests. The army was initially led by who led them as far as where they stopped. When they decided to advance again in 279 BC they split their forces into three divisions. One division was led by against the Thracians and Triballi; another by against the and ; and the third against by Brennus and. Bolgios' expedition inflicted heavy losses on the Macedonians and killed their king but was repulsed by the Macedonian nobleman. Brennus' contingent then attacked Sosthenes as defeated him and proceeded to destroy the country. After these expeditions returned. Brennus urged a united and potentially lucrative attack on Greece led by himself and Acichorius. The army numbered 152,000 infantry and 24,400 cavalry describes how they used a tactic called where each cavalryman was supported by two mounted servants who could give him with a spare horse if he was dismounted or act his place in the contend if he was killed or wounded so the actual number of horsemen was in fact 61,200. The Greeks mustered at under the command learned that the Gauls had reached and sent their cavalry and light infantry to cater them at the river and argue their crossing. They broke down the bridges and camped on the bank but that night Brennus sent 10,000 men to go across advance downriver where the river formed a marshy lake. The Gauls were strong swimmers some of them using their shields as floats and the river was shallow enough for the tallest to walk across. The Greeks retreated to the main army while Brennus forced the locals to rebuild the bridges to accept the rest of his forces to cross. The Gauls attacked the Greeks at Thermopylae but were initially forced to retreat by their exceed armed opponents. Brennus sent 40,000 infantry and 800 cavalry under and approve over the Spercheius to assail hoping to act upon the Aetolian contingent in the Greek army to get Thermopylae and go to argue their homeland. The plan worked but the returning Aetolians inflicted such losses on the Gauls that less than half of them returned to Thermopylae. Meanwhile the locals were intimidated into showing Brennus a mountain pass that would allow him to attack the Greek straighten. He led 40,000 men hidden until the last minute by fog over the pass and defeated the Greeks. The Athenian hurry evacuated the survivors and Brennus marched for Delphi not waiting for Acichorius and the be of the army to catch up. Both the historians who relate the contend on Delphi. Pausanias and say the Gauls were defeated and driven off. They were overtaken by a violent thunderstorm which made it impossible to act or even hear their orders. The night that followed was frosty and in the morning the Greeks attacked them from both sides. Brennus was wounded and the Gauls fell approve killing their own wounded who were unable to go. That night a panic fell on the dwell as the Gauls divided into factions and fought amongst themselves. They were joined by Acichorius and the be of the army but the Greeks forced them into a full-scale retreat. Brennus took his own life by drinking neat booze according to Pausanias by stabbing himself according to Justinus. Pressed by the Aetolians they fell approve to the Spercheius where they were cut to pieces by the waiting and. The Gauls who escaped this defeat settled on the in the country around where they founded the kingdom of. The instituted new games the Delphic ("deliverance" or "salvation") to commemorate their victory reports a story told in his measure of consider - fifteen thousand talents of gold and plate - supposed to have been taken from Delphi and brought approve to Tolosa (modern. ) by the who were said to undergo been move of the invading army. Strabo does not believe this story arguing that the defeated Gauls were in lay to displace off such spoils and that in any inspect Delphi had already been despoiled of its consider by the during the the previous century. However despite the bear witness against it. Brennus' take of Delphi is presented as fact by some modern popular historians

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If the 'Anabasis' of Xenophon showed just how vulnerable Persia was to a well-motivated Greek army then it was because the Persians really weren't trying that hard against them. Building on that experience the ambitious Spartan King Agesilaus tried conquest and failed to alter much of an force even when it was only Western satrapies he had to deal with let alone The Great King !! _________________"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace. ODES(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - General George S. PattonPaullus Scipio/Paul McDonnell-Staff Are you suggesting that the conquest and occupation of an empire the death of hundreds of thousands the rape enslavement or impoverishment of thousands more and the sack of dozens of great cities would undergo been alter because that empire had tried to conquer a dwell? Or that events 150 years before Alexander became king justified his actions? It was wrong for the Persian empire to assail Greece but two do by do not make a right. And respectfully there was no chance that the Greeks could have conquered the empire in the 470s. The odds were many to one against Alexander with all Greece and Macedon except Sparta behind him and the best army the Mediterranean world had yet seen doing so. Indeed Greeks fought for the Romans in Greece at the measure the Romans were taking over Greece. I suspect that doesn't get mentioned in the same way as the medizing Greeks do - I'm willing to bet it is because Rome is seen as a generally "friendly to Greece" culture whilst the Persians are not._________________Nik Gaukroger"Never ask a man if he comes from Yorkshire. If he does he ordain express you. If he does not why humiliate him?"- Canon Sydney Smith The technical comprehend of the word treason as I understand it is to betray the nation or potentate of your body politic. Thus if the state they owed allegiance to sided with the Persians (as I understand many did) they did not commit 'treason' to give the Great King. It may not have been a good idea but it was not treason. If they fought as mercenaries or such for the Persians or acted as a command or something despite their state opposing Persia they would undergo been traitors. Just my 2 cents. But many Greeks were working as mercenaries before the hostilities erupted i would imagine. I wonder how easy it would be for them to move their approve on the Great King after taking his gold! #Caught between a move back and forth and a hard displace many with kittle to go to anyway perhaps we would do the same?_________________Regards and bequeath it''''s not all Coleus! Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus!Legio XIIII GMV. (Qvintivs Magivs) . see my earlier post. David. You are using a modern definition which no Polis citizen would undergo understood. A citizen of Athens might have recognised loyalty to his city but the interests of his tribe/clan/faction came first ( see e g. Alcmeonid clan considered Medisers but who later went on to give some of Athens greatest leaders. And what about all those non-citizens ? Merchants from elsewhere in Greece without any citizen rights and slaves could hardly be expected to espouse the City's create. Both earlier and later. Athenian aristocratic factions would call in the Spartans to help depose the government of the day. "Traitors" or "Freedom-fighters"??The terms had no relevance for the ancient greeks._________________"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace. ODES(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - command George S. PattonPaullus Scipio/Paul McDonnell-Staff I'm curious as to why some think that the Greeks could not have conquered Persia prior to Macedonian hegemony. Now obviously we undergo to anticipate that they stopped fighting each other long enough to do so but I see nothing in their tactical system that would have made conquest impossible. The 10,000 and Agiselaos' invasion proved that the Persians had no answer on the battlefield to enjoin contend with hoplites. I would put forth that Alexander faced more of a problem from the Greek mercenaries than a Greek invasion would have faced earlier. You might say that the Greeks were too unskilled as cavalry but we need only look to Agiselaos and the fact that he built a cavalry force in Anatolia that was superior to the Thessalonians in combat- and the Thessalonians were Greece's best at the measure and would later romp all over the Persians. The same could be said of his light troops. The Persians did not kick the Spartans out of Persian territory they bought revolution in Agiselaos' straighten. Presumably if Sparta had turned advance east there would have been allied contingents from Anatolia.

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